Dawn Felagund (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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silwritersguild2020-12-13 06:00 pm
dawn_felagund) wrote in silwritersguild2020-12-13 06:00 pm
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Admin Post: Seeking Feedback on Comment Preference Options on the New Site
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Early in the discussion of rebuilding the SWG website, when I was seeking feedback on features that members and guests would like to see added to the new site, one proposed feature was to offer authors and creators the option to specify the type of feedback they would like to receive from readers and viewers. Recognizing that commenting has decreased in recent years, this is an idea that has been discussed more widely in the fandom as a means to increase the comments left on a fanwork. (See, for example, the tumblr longlivefeedback.) As a result, we have decided to add this feature to the new site.
How it will work: When adding a new fanwork to the site, creators will have the option of selecting the feedback they would like to receive from a list with checkboxes. As always, creators will have the option of providing additional information or clarification in the notes on the fanwork. (The new site will have the same options for notes available as the current site: story notes [covers the entire fanwork], chapter notes [appears at the top of a chapter and in the table of contents], and end notes [appears at the end of the chapter and nearest the comment field].)
When the fanwork is displayed, the creator's preferences will appear above the comment form. Here is an example screencap:
[Click the image for full-size.]
(Please note that the site is in very rough draft form as far as its appearance. I am not ready for feedback on how the site looks.)
Some caveats: As noted above, entering comment preferences is not required. This section of the comment form will be simply left off the display if the creator chooses not to enter comment preferences.
Creators can change their comment preferences at any time.
Furthermore, on the new site, creators will have the ability to turn off comments entirely.
Finally, the new Site Etiquette/Terms of Service that was approved by the SWG membership earlier this year will only allow concrit on fanworks where the creator has requested it. This field facilitates enforcing that expectation.
My questions for you: Right now, I am looking for input on what options to include on the list of comment preferences. Based on a discussion of this issue in the #town-hall of the SWG's Discord server, the following three options were proposed:
Please note that the wording of the options is not necessarily finalized. I'd like to focus less on wordsmithing what has already been proposed than getting feedback on whether these options meet the needs of our members and guests. Are these options adequate enough? Would you add any? Take any of these away?
As always, feedback is welcome in a comment on this post. If you prefer to communicate with the moderators privately, we can be reached at [email protected].
longlivefeedback.) As a result, we have decided to add this feature to the new site.How it will work: When adding a new fanwork to the site, creators will have the option of selecting the feedback they would like to receive from a list with checkboxes. As always, creators will have the option of providing additional information or clarification in the notes on the fanwork. (The new site will have the same options for notes available as the current site: story notes [covers the entire fanwork], chapter notes [appears at the top of a chapter and in the table of contents], and end notes [appears at the end of the chapter and nearest the comment field].)
When the fanwork is displayed, the creator's preferences will appear above the comment form. Here is an example screencap:
[Click the image for full-size.]
(Please note that the site is in very rough draft form as far as its appearance. I am not ready for feedback on how the site looks.)
Some caveats: As noted above, entering comment preferences is not required. This section of the comment form will be simply left off the display if the creator chooses not to enter comment preferences.
Creators can change their comment preferences at any time.
Furthermore, on the new site, creators will have the ability to turn off comments entirely.
Finally, the new Site Etiquette/Terms of Service that was approved by the SWG membership earlier this year will only allow concrit on fanworks where the creator has requested it. This field facilitates enforcing that expectation.
My questions for you: Right now, I am looking for input on what options to include on the list of comment preferences. Based on a discussion of this issue in the #town-hall of the SWG's Discord server, the following three options were proposed:
- I'd like to hear what you enjoyed about my fanwork.
- If you notice a typo or other small error, please let me know.
- I'm open to constructive criticism on this fanwork.
Please note that the wording of the options is not necessarily finalized. I'd like to focus less on wordsmithing what has already been proposed than getting feedback on whether these options meet the needs of our members and guests. Are these options adequate enough? Would you add any? Take any of these away?
As always, feedback is welcome in a comment on this post. If you prefer to communicate with the moderators privately, we can be reached at [email protected].
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Maybe I'd rather have no options at all--just a place for comments.
The "like to hear what you enjoyed about my fanwork" sounds both too Pollyanna-ish and like begging for compliments. I'd love to hear what people think about my work. It does not have to be a gushing compliment or detailed analysis. But I would prefer not to get a lashing over my bad writing and poor taste either. Questions are fine too or other discussion but want to feel safe from trolling here. Do we need to define everything in such detail. Just thinking aloud here.
Maybe there have been other discussions I have missed.I see that took place on discord. I'll try to read it there. Sorry.no subject
So you would not select that option. You could include a note in one of the three available notes sections to PM you, if you wanted to. (I have found a module to set up a proper PM system, although I have not even begun to play with it yet. Either way, there will be an option for members to privately contact each other via the site, similar to what we have now.)
Maybe I'd rather have no options at all--just a place for comments.
As I said in the post, selecting comment preferences is not required, and the text will simply not show up if you don't choose any: just the comment form.
I see that took place on discord. I'll try to read it there.
I don't know how helpful that will be. I'm just trying to get a sense, from people who want to use this system, what they would like to see included. If it's not something you plan to use, that's fine too.
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- Erulisse (one L)
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The idea is that readers/potential commenters sometimes don't know what an author wants and so hesitate to leave comments. Systems like this have been proposed as one possible solution to that. We're going to try it and see! :)
The field to switch off comments is completely separate from this. (I posted a screencap in my reply to Himring below.) Comments default to "on" and comment preferences don't pre-select anything (and so default to displaying nothing).
I hope that helps.
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- Erulisse (one L)
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I just wanted to mention (possibly repeating myself?) that it should be made as obvious as possible to people whether they have commenting switched off so that they don't switch it off by accident and then wonder why they are getting no comments.
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(Click for full-size)
I tried to show that one must also click to expand this option, so it'd be very hard to do accidentally! :D
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- In chapter 7, you said Character XYZ had blue eyes, but in this latest chapter they suddenly have brown eyes. <-- This is obviously a small error because it can be fixed by just changing all reference to XYZ's eyes to the desired colour, an easy search and fix operation. Most readers won't even notice.
- In chapter 7, Character XYZ was terrified of all dogs due to a traumatic childhood experience, so why do they pet a feral street dog in this new chapter? <-- This is no longer a small error because it requires rather more work. Presumably I, the author, needed XYZ to pet the dog for plot reasons, so now I have some rethinking to do. Either I need to rewrite chapter 7 or the current chapter, including changes to the plot. Readers who read the story back when will continue to notice the issue, even when they now go back and see that the traumatic childhood experience and subsequent fear of dogs have disappeared. Or that Character XYZ manages to dramatically overcome their fear in this new chapter.
- Character XYZ says that life in Place A is very different from life in Place B, but so far, that difference doesn't really come across to the reader. Maybe you could make the differences between Place A and Place B more pronounced so we can understand what XYZ means? <-- Now this is proper concrit territory - writing advice and/or requests for clarification, rewording etc. that either require extensive rewriting or a different approach in the future, and, for some writers, an unwelcome intrusion into the creative process (or useless feedback on a story that's already finished or abandoned and won't be further worked on, anyway).
- I really enjoy your worldbuilding, and the characters and plot are captivating, but sometimes I find it hard to understand your long sentences. Maybe you could consider breaking them up into smaller bits? <-- Concrit (or maybe a personal attack, depending on the author's feelings on the matter ;)), this time of a stylistic sort.
- Maybe you didn't mean it like that, but your description of People XYZ as A, B and C is highly reminiscent of real-world stereotypes, and I found it really hurtful. Would it be possible to change it, or maybe to make it clear that the reader isn't supposed to adopt these attitudes? <-- Still more concrit, or a job for a sensitivity reader.
To reflect these differences, I feel that it would be useful to either have a fourth option (something like "I'm open to constructive criticism on details that don't require any major rewrites"?), or to allow a sort of ticky-box system for authors who are "open to concrit":
I'm open to constructive criticism on this fanwork in the range of
X continuity/ logic
X sensitivity
X description
X characterisation
X style
X canon compliance
X worldbuilding
X ______ (form field for inserting something else)
So if I'm, say, an author who is desperate for continuity alerts and doesn't mind concrit on characterisation and description, but is absolutely allergic to stylistic advice and doesn't give a damn about canon, I can make that clear in my "open to concrit" selection.
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As I've been thinking about this issue (and hearing from and discussing it with people), my biggest concern is around the "I'd like to hear what you enjoyed about my fanwork." When we first started talking about this possibility, people were talking about the possibility of hearing from readers with different types of positive feedback that some readers feel reluctant to give (asking questions, deeper discussions, keysmashes, gifs, etc) without knowing if the creator wants to receive such feedback. As we discussed it, though, opinion shifted away from thinking this was necessary, leaving the "I'd like to hear what you enjoyed about my fanwork" as something of a vestige of that earlier idea ... and somewhat awkward (as Oshun notes above) and potentially perilous (as others have noted elsewhere in this discussion). My main concern on the latter are the people who will inevitably overthink checking that box because they feel like they're being grabby (a comparison to the old-school FFN "plz r&r" was drawn over email), and really, the point of this is not to shut down positive feedback. If someone truly doesn't want to hear nice things from their readers, they have the option to shut off comments entirely but I don't think this is the case for the vast, vast majority of creators; it is more a matter of feeling self-conscious about acknowledging that, yes, I am posting my work in hopes that you will like it and tell me if you do like it. If someone's work is at the point where they want mostly critical feedback in order to revise, we will have a beta directory. (It is, in fact, already built on the new site and ready to go! So this is not even a hypothetical future feature.)
With changing the SE/ToS to allow concrit only when asked, I like having a more formalized feature to actually ask for that. So I think the comment preferences are still useful there ... and I'm really leaning toward a model more like what you propose here, where positives are part of the boilerplate and the creator who wants concrit can select from a more granular list, ranging from "let me know about typos and small errors" all the way up to "let me know major issues that you noticed with the piece." Because you're right that there is quite a range in there.
Tl;dr ... thank you for this detailed comment; it's really given me a lot to think about and untangled some of my uncertainty around this.
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I think "I'd like to hear what you enjoyed about my fanwork" (maybe worded a bit differently) does have its merits. As you say, a new generation of readers seems to have gotten the impression that mere squeeing or gushing or whatnot is unwelcome. Even if in theory authors who leave comments open presumably wish for positive feedback, this may not be clear to readers (particularly if they aren't authors themselves). So while it may look like "Please R&R" to old fans ("old" in terms of fandom participation, I mean), it might read more like "OK to reblog" to new fans.
It can also be encouraging for authors to see that YES, it's absolutely OK to want positive feedback! It's fine to ask for praise only! You don't have to open yourself up to criticism (however constructive) in order to get any feedback at all!
The only difficulties I see are these: a) if someone has ticked the "concrit" box but not the "things you enjoyed" box, some readers may worry that they're not allowed to squee at all. Obviously, common sense is to be applied, but a lot of us are overthinkers. b) just what exactly is "things I enjoyed"? Is the reader only allowed to quote lines/talk about favourite scenes etc., or are questions OK? What about keyboard-smashing because it was so good that the readers is left incoherent? What about "This was so good that I couldn't put it down and now it's 4am!" - technically not stating what the reader enjoyed about the story (except perhaps that it was riveting), but definitely positive feedback? Again, one might expect readers to figure out that the author will probably accept "asjhshölkjdlkf!!!" as high praise (and that praise without specification, such as "This was awesome!", is also welcome), but again, overthinking is a common trait among fans.
So really, I think keeping some kind of "positive feedback welcome" option is justified - not because it's technically necessary, but to signal to authors that you can welcome comments without welcoming corrections or concrit.